Common mistakes high school students make on A+ and methods of encouragement.

[T.S. Culbreath]

Hello Forum,

Good afternoon. Apologies if this question has already been asked, I am still learning the setup. We will be starting our certification course this spring. Our students will be high schoolers (Juniors and Seniors). My question is for anyone who has worked with this age group before. What are some common mistakes you have noticed your students make with the A+ certification? What are some ways you encourage your students to take the course AND complete the certification?

My Best,
T.S.

 

[jgoodrich]

It is my opinion, that you should start them off with the CompTIA ITF. The main reason for this is that there is a lot of new terms and vocabulary that they have never seen. They also have no experience taking an industry certification. The CompTIA ITF can be administered in the classroom and you can show them how a test looks like without wasting the money on the A+.

Remember that the A+ is meant for a person with 9-12 months on the job time. "CompTIA A+ is for professionals looking to start a career in IT and have 9 to 12 months of hands-on experience in the lab or field or equivalent training."


Also even with the new test, It test some "older" tech. Granted the 1101 and 1102 is "updated" in the last year but there is always going to be a delay. I know there are "boot camps" and other classes that push for a pass on the first time on theA+ but I think starting 11th and 12th graders off on demanding they pass the A+ (1101 and 1102) is a lot. I have taught at both the high school level and community college levels. Having students doing all the work not passing. Some high school students have real issues with just the ITF+. Yes, you will have some students that can pass it but the majority will pass the 1101 and fail 1102.

So I start with ITF+ and CloudEssentials I can administer them in class and the students see what it is like to take a CompTIA test. Then drill them the next term on A+ using NetAcad and hands-on labs. Then I have found my success rate is much higher.

As for common mistakes.

1. They don't study enough. They refuse to spend any time reading a book (ebook or textbook).
2. They don't commit the common terms to memory.
3. They don't memorize the CompTIA troubleshooting steps.

My two cents.

 

[Abby N Krane]

It is my opinion, that you should start them off with the CompTIA ITF. The main reason for this is that there is a lot of new terms and vocabulary that they have never seen. They also have no experience taking an industry certification. The CompTIA ITF can be administered in the classroom and you can show them how a test looks like without wasting the money on the A+.

Remember that the A+ is meant for a person with 9-12 months on the job time. "CompTIA A+ is for professionals looking to start a career in IT and have 9 to 12 months of hands-on experience in the lab or field or equivalent training."


Also even with the new test, It test some "older" tech. Granted the 1101 and 1102 is "updated" in the last year but there is always going to be a delay. I know there are "boot camps" and other classes that push for a pass on the first time on theA+ but I think starting 11th and 12th graders off on demanding they pass the A+ (1101 and 1102) is a lot. I have taught at both the high school level and community college levels. Having students doing all the work not passing. Some high school students have real issues with just the ITF+. Yes, you will have some students that can pass it but the majority will pass the 1101 and fail 1102.

So I start with ITF+ and CloudEssentials I can administer them in class and the students see what it is like to take a CompTIA test. Then drill them the next term on A+ using NetAcad and hands-on labs. Then I have found my success rate is much higher.

As for common mistakes.

1. They don't study enough. They refuse to spend any time reading a book (ebook or textbook).
2. They don't commit the common terms to memory.
3. They don't memorize the CompTIA troubleshooting steps.

My two cents.

Ditto to everything @jgoodrich said. I've taught in a high school classroom and we started with ITF+. So much of it is the prep and learning how to study for this type of exam. CompTIA exams are very different than a math or language arts exam, or even the ACT/SAT that they are used to. I have always had issues with high schoolers not wanting to do the outside work. Not wanting to study, or finish up labs, etc.

Start with the ITF+, then move up. I do like the idea of adding Cloud Essentials. So much is learning the exam structure and the tricks to passing the exams.

 

[T.S. Culbreath]

Hello @jgoodrich and @Abby N Krane and thank you,

We have been starting them off with ITF+ and then moving them into A+ as a part of an apprenticeship for about 2 years. Here is the kicker. The previous trainings were completely online, carried out by a 3rd party vender and none of the participants would take either certifications. Even with us paying for the bundles with vouchers and the retakes. I was recently brought on and I am moving things to in house and in person for A+, they're still doing ITF+ this fall through the 3rd party. It is my first time teaching the course but technically if I get even one student to attempt the test, literally one, it'll be a significant improvement.

@jgoodrich The apprenticeship is about a year long and we have them spread throughout or org in IT roles. My goal is to get around 85% of a class, around 20-25 students, certified. That way we can get them work with our partner orgs, bring in a new cohort and repeat.

1.) I shouldn't give them outside work-like prereading the chapters.
2.) Extensively go over vocab
3.) Put the troubleshooting steps everywhere and go over them often.

We are making it mandatory that this group of fall students take the ITF+ certification test (pass or fail) before moving into the A+ course. Again, I am new to the org and the org is relatively new. I haven't looked into CloudEssentials, but I will now.

 

[Gregory Childers]

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed previously. When starting with HS students or novice learners, I strongly suggest the following sequence:

IT Fundamentals+
Cloud Essentials+
A+
Linux+
Network+
Server+
Cloud+
Security+
CySA+
PenTest+
CASP+

 

[Rick Butler]

Well, I would be remiss to not jump into this one...even though the young people with whom I've worked have been few (I'm more post secondary), we do see a lot of 18-24s which really have the same mindset, in my opinion. So, I'll comment as well:

I have always had issues with high schoolers not wanting to do the outside work. Not wanting to study, or finish up labs, etc.

A lot of the 18-24 year old crowd are the same way. Competing priorities, plus not wanting to miss out on "fun/friends/etc" tends to get in the way of being career motivated. Most young people have no idea what they want to do in their career, so some of that lack-of-commitment comes from indecision about whether they want to invest the time.

We are making it mandatory that this group of fall students take the ITF+ certification test (pass or fail) before moving into the A+ course. Again, I am new to the org and the org is relatively new. I haven't looked into CloudEssentials, but I will now.

Our college tried something like this and it didn't work out well. Failure rates were around 90%. We basically made taking the exam 20% of the overall grade. Take it and get 10%, pass it and get the other 10% - which meant to get an "A" in the course meant passing the certification. Students were basically SAP'ing out and drops were increasing. Senior management decided this was not conducive to maintaining a functional school / profit margin, so the practice was discarded.

In the end, certification came to students who actually wanted it, intrinsically. Extrinsic motivators (positive or negative), simply do not work as intended. Even young people that sign up for Computer Training aren't as hungry for it. And it's that hunger that drives them to put the video game controller down, get off Discord, and focus on their studies.

High school in this case and in my opinion, is no different.

Overall, I am not a fan of the entire Renaissance-style of education that the US Department of Education holds so dear. Putting people through CompTIA courses who are more adapted for being something else is a waste of time, energy, and resources. Education needs to start by assessing what young people, even in Primary or Secondary, are more adapted to do. If we want to actually build a technical workforce, early, we need to identify the kids that want that and focus on them.

Not a popular opinion, I know, but pushing kids into a career they are neither willing nor able to do is, in the end, self-defeating.

My two coppers in this. Your mileage may vary.

/r

 

[Jeremiah Minner]

Yes to what everyone else said…and, any CompTIA exam that has PBQs requires time management and a test plan. There are several schools of though about when to do the PBQs in the exam time but they are all consistent in stating that time management is critical. And don’t leave any answers blank.

 

[Mol_lyC]

In the end, certification came to students who actually wanted it, intrinsically. Extrinsic motivators (positive or negative), simply do not work as intended. Even young people that sign up for Computer Training aren't as hungry for it. And it's that hunger that drives them to put the video game controller down, get off Discord, and focus on their studies.

This. I am in my third semester of teaching post secondary students. They purchase vouchers and test at an off campus location, but it is totally up to them. I'm still looking for the right way to encourage an entire class to put forth more than a minimum effort. So far, I can identify the students that won't need much one on one help. I'm still learning how to identify in a student, or help them to recognize, their learning style and what works for them.

 

[Rick Butler]

A little more harsh reality on the topic:

<soapbox>

Pareto's law says you're going to focus 80% of your effort on 20% of your students. 10% of them will end up motivated to test. 10% of them are struggling to even pass.

The other 80% of your students will take your class, pass with a B or C, and go off to whatever is next, thinking their degree will command someone to give them a job, which justifies giving them 20% of your time. However, this is also the group of students that won't know what their learning style is, or even if they want to actually take the course and add it to their career knowledge base. Students should have this awareness in Secondary education, however, these days, those students are so distracted, they can't even master basic skills like arithmetic and writing more than 30%, which is about the national average in the US.

This isn't a real comfortable thought, nor is it popular in a feelings-based society where we hand out trophies for participation. But it has proven statistically true for me for years on end, from my time in the classroom, to leading programs, developing curriculum, and empowering other instructors to do the same.

The part that I resent the most, however, is how educators are primarily assigned blame. Schools risk losing their programs if their students don't perform, but the school has no way of making a student successful - the student has to choose that first and then come to the school to do something with it. Sadly, it's usually upside-down and backwards.

That, to me, is why we don't have a massive surge of IT practitioners going into the industry. IT skills require discipline, like any other skill. Real discipline is a lost art in our society.

</soapbox>

 

[Chris Gehringer]

A little more harsh reality on the topic:

<soapbox>

Pareto's law says you're going to focus 80% of your effort on 20% of your students. 10% of them will end up motivated to test. 10% of them are struggling to even pass.

The other 80% of your students will take your class, pass with a B or C, and go off to whatever is next, thinking their degree will command someone to give them a job, which justifies giving them 20% of your time. However, this is also the group of students that won't know what their learning style is, or even if they want to actually take the course and add it to their career knowledge base. Students should have this awareness in Secondary education, however, these days, those students are so distracted, they can't even master basic skills like arithmetic and writing more than 30%, which is about the national average in the US.

This isn't a real comfortable thought, nor is it popular in a feelings-based society where we hand out trophies for participation. But it has proven statistically true for me for years on end, from my time in the classroom, to leading programs, developing curriculum, and empowering other instructors to do the same.

The part that I resent the most, however, is how educators are primarily assigned blame. Schools risk losing their programs if their students don't perform, but the school has no way of making a student successful - the student has to choose that first and then come to the school to do something with it. Sadly, it's usually upside-down and backwards.

That, to me, is why we don't have a massive surge of IT practitioners going into the industry. IT skills require discipline, like any other skill. Real discipline is a lost art in our society.

</soapbox>

Rick, this was exactly what I needed today. I was called out for having my students spend too much time playing games in class when only the 10 to 20% of my class is even remotely interested (15 to 17 year olds). I am struggling with how to keep these students going. My pace requires completing (aka teaching) 4.5 pages every day. There is very little time for review of the previous day. My students cannot keep up with the pace, do not take great notes, don't take the time to review them daily, and may only be in my class because there are not too many "better" options. Our program is driven by Perkins money and I am expected to get more students certified (which will happen, but the class is too full of other students). Now that I have to keep the students busy for 40 minutes every day, I need more worksheets, more vocabulary review activities, more group activities, more, more, more. They won't take their own notes, won't intently watch the videos, etc. I use both TestOut, NetAcad and CompTIA resources, but 80% of the students are all the same. I'm ready to move on from teaching honestly. Administration doesn't get how difficult this is for the student and for me. Not sure they care.